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Gilgalad-2490
09-06-2004, 06:29 PM
I was just wondering how long in length do you think U.C should make the spears I think it depends, orc pike should be 5 ft. , aeglos should be 6 ft. , gondor spear 6-7 ft. and it depends on which easterling pike will be made (long one or short one) what do you guys think? and also should spears/pikes be able to be detachted in the middle for easy shipping?

Thorin
09-06-2004, 07:28 PM
I think it mainly depends on a few whether they are going to be full sized or a lower scale. After they decide on that, then we will know. Each one is different... just ask and Gil-Galad =)

Sir Tristram
09-06-2004, 07:45 PM
They have to reduce the scale on some of them...
The Uruk's pikes from Helms Deep were HUGE!! They looked to be about 9 ft. long!
aeglos is longer than 6 ft. too...Looks about 6.5 ft. (not quite 7)

They will probably reduce the length on all of them a bit, like the PEW shield. We won't know much difference, since most of us will have very little space to put them anyway....I see these being stretched along the top of a lot of walls (Above the bulk of our collections. Or standing in a corner. LOL!)

Gilgalad-2490
09-06-2004, 08:18 PM
I agree sir tristam they should scale them down just enough so that they could fit in people's houses, surley one wouldn't want a nine foot pike in their home (i hope so :p )

Gil-Galad
09-06-2004, 08:46 PM
Each one is different... just ask and Gil-Galad =) Here I am. I had to leave for a few days to go to the lake but now I am back home and happy to be back on the forums. I know that the Uruk-hai pike is aroun 18 feet and aeglos is around nine feet I think. It may be a good idea to make two scales of the pikes. If someone like me wants to buy a full scale Aeglos, they can. If someone has very limeted space than they could buy a scaled down version or a mini. It could also depend on the pike because the easterling pike or the mordor ork pikes are not as long as Aeglos or the Uruk pike. i hope that in a short time UC wil tell us.

Kit, can you give us some insite on how the spears and stuff will be scaled. I am eager to know so that i can get my room ready according to the length.;)

SauronTD
09-06-2004, 09:03 PM
If they were made full size Aiglos would be 9ft and the Uruk pike would be 18ft.

Gilgalad-2490
09-06-2004, 10:41 PM
Aeglos dosn't really look 9 ft. hmmmm i thought it would be like seven feet the most, cause in a picture in weapons and warfare ( a lotr weapon book) it showed aeglos like half a foot taller than Gilgalad and how tall can he be 6 ft?

SauronTD
09-06-2004, 11:50 PM
Here is a quote from Weapons and Warfare.

"Named Aiglos, or icicle by the Elves, it stood nine feet high; the blade was recurved and almost two feet long and was etched with brass filigree."

Gilgalad-2490
09-07-2004, 05:44 PM
yea but weapons and warfare isnt always true it said the galadrim bow was seven feet! and look at a picture of gil-galad holding aeglos does it look 9 feet? I think an apropriate heigt is 7 ft. because isn't 9 ft. a little too long i mean that's long just imagine trying to move it around your house, and i don't want one scaled down to much, in my opinion if U.C makes it i think aeglos should be 7ft.

http://images-partners.google.com/images?q=tbn:VDaDWQTyNjwJ:www.council-of-elrond.com/castdb/gilgalad/gilgalad3.jpg (http://aolsearch.aol.com/aol/img.jsp?img=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.council-of-elrond.com%2Fcastdb%2Fgilgalad%2Fgilgalad3.jpg&query=aeglos&page=2&filter=&site=) In this picture aeglos looks only one foot taller than gilgalad

The Flame of the West
09-07-2004, 07:35 PM
I would think 9ft is a pretty decent approximation. Yes, the spear may not look that much taller than the actor, but you have to take into consideration that it is the height of the character that counts. For example, Elendil, known as Elendil the Tall, supposedly stood over 7 feet tall, and elves would no doubt be similar in height to men. This could be why most people think 9 ft would be a reasonable length for Aeglos. Also, when you watch the fellowship EE, you can see that the bows of the Galadhrim are easily the height of the actors playing the elves, suggesting that they could in fact be around 7 feet in length. I hope this helps a little... :)

Thorin
09-07-2004, 07:36 PM
I'm not sure that a smaller scaled spear would go over well with many people. It is possible to display... its just a little difficult. I dont even know how they would dispaly them all...

Sir Tristram
09-07-2004, 09:13 PM
It really is a scale issue like someone mentioned.

Look at Sting? It is small, but Elijah's version was longer (Over 28"-30"?)
Aeglos might supposed to be 9ft. in the book, but the actor who is around 6ft. could not wield it the way in which he did if it were ...and I have forgotten if he ever described how tal Gil-Galad was supposed to be...
Elendil was a perfect example! He was suposed to be 7ft.+ tall and Narsil would have been easily wielded by someone that size....The actor in the movie sure was not anywhere near 7ft tall. But it didn't matter.

I don't think they'll make 9ft.+ spears and pikes....they just are not practical for the way in which we use them (Displaying)....But reduce the scale a bit to 7ft. and you'd be surprised what 2ft.+ will do for practical sales....(Not diehard collectors, we buy anything and figure our the displaying of the items latter!)

Elves are not supposed to be smaller that men...Someone said that earlier.
Númenorean men, maybe, but not the watered down line of men...

It doesn't really matter anyway...UC is plagued by the fact that they want to please as many people in the customer base as possible, but at the same time they have to think rationally about this...What will people buy, what can they buy and display without too much difficulty...and will they KEEP on buying...

9ft. + is just oo big for most of our homes. 7ft. is a whole heck of a lot more feasible!
They would not be to difficult to display....if you draw them across the tops or bottoms of the walls above or beneath your sword collections....Could work!

Gilgalad-2490
09-07-2004, 10:46 PM
There is no way i could have said it better than myself sir tristram thanks for telling everyone what i was trying to say :D, but in the end no matter how long or short they make aeglos i'll buy it

Sir Tristram
09-08-2004, 12:01 AM
I will too! I'm with ya, Gil! :cool:

Gregorius0202
09-08-2004, 01:12 AM
Is anyone here even thinking about reenactors? Since I've gotten on here, I've noticed the locals are all about display... Lots of "nearly-functional" products such as these are still used by people who like displaying arms in public, such as at Reniassance faires.

I personally don't think that downsizing weaponry is a good thing. Anyone diehard enough to want to display a big spear can easily figure out a way to display it. Spears generally look great at an angle, and at a 60 or 45 degree angle on a wall, 9 feet will give you space in the usual 8 foot ceilings!

I personally love pole-arms, and would like anything I possibly buy from the Lord of the Rings to be functional, which is something doubtful, and of an accurately depicted size.

-Gregory-

Sir Tristram
09-08-2004, 10:05 AM
I know plenty of reenactors and I have been known to suit up and get down and dirty too and I have seen someone with a pike only once! (and I live near one of the longest running Ren Fares in New York!)
I do not think it is going to be a big deal if these guys downsize the spears....It is just more practical.
And the current UC line is almost all about DISPLAYING that is the purpose!
Costuming up and walking around is fine with them too....but using them?
I know there are a lot of Gil-Galad fans hear...but I just don't see there being a rush to get agelos for reenacting his one spearing move from the prologue! :p (I jest a bit hear, but you gt my point!)

Gilgalad-2490
09-08-2004, 10:38 AM
When i get aeglos i might play around with ir for a while but it's main function would be to make my room look much more cooler

Gregorius0202
09-08-2004, 07:59 PM
I know plenty of reenactors and I have been known to suit up and get down and dirty too and I have seen someone with a pike only once! (and I live near one of the longest running Ren Fares in New York!)
I do not think it is going to be a big deal if these guys downsize the spears....It is just more practical.
And the current UC line is almost all about DISPLAYING that is the purpose!
Costuming up and walking around is fine with them too....but using them?
I know there are a lot of Gil-Galad fans hear...but I just don't see there being a rush to get agelos for reenacting his one spearing move from the prologue! :p (I jest a bit hear, but you gt my point!)
Good points, but I'd still disagree...

Most people who 'dress up' for entertainment at places like ren. faires as Lord of the Rings characters tend to think "Oh, I'm being a fantasy guy, so it doesn't really matter what size my sword is, etc..."

This is both wrong, and right. When dressing up as a fantasy character, there are no limits to your imagination. Being an "accurate" fantasy character doesn't seem to come to most people's minds, though, does it!

If you're dressin' up "by the book", for example, you should follow Tolkien's vauge discriptions AS CLOSELY as possible, and that's important!

So, if you're dressin' up according to the movie, why do otherwise? If someone's spear is 9' long, it should be nine feet long!

If you're a Macedonian pikemen, for example, you don't make your pike 8 feet shorter than it really would have been just because it fits better in your room... :\

So, that's my points for the dress-up parties around and about. I think that having 'screw-in' cue stick style spearshafts would be fine for both displaying and reenactment purposes, myself! I don't think anyone is going to take a UC item and do any live steel combat with it... That's for stuff from Windlass & Deepeeka (which I honestly prefer, since I'm that active type of guy, rather than the display type)... UC is all about the beauty!

-Gregory-

Gilgalad-2490
09-08-2004, 08:44 PM
You are entitled to your opinion gregorius202 and it is a good opinion but, all the U.C products follow the weapons of the movie that were made by WETA workshop not by tolkeins description and U.C products are wall hangers imagine trying to carry around a nine foot spear in your home! :eek: , i don't think that would work out well and i don't think it would fit in my room

Gregorius0202
09-08-2004, 09:52 PM
I suppose keeping with the demands of those who use these items as display items are of course more important than those who are like me, because I'm obviously in the minority as to who actually buys the stuff!

Also, I didn't say anything about them being made like Tolkien's descriptions, or that they should. I was using that as an example to show how proper size and detail in equipment is important in the circumstances I was describing.

But, those circumstances are, once again, a minority thinking, so I definitely can't say I'll buy this stuff at the smaller scale, although many will... Anyway, I know of some private vendors who can or have made functional versions of Aiglos, so, if I wanted it bad enough, I'd get one of those!

-Gregory-

Gil-Galad
09-08-2004, 11:18 PM
Ta tell you all the truth, i don't care how long the shaft is, it's just a pole that I could go buy at Lowes. My deal is with the blade, that's what I don't want to get down sized. something like sauron's mace is very understandable to get scaled down because it would probably tear your sheetrock down if you tried to put it up. If Uc does make it full scale, pole and all, we can get creative! you seem like smart people, I am sure that you can figure out how to display it. (not trying to be a jerk);)

Gilgalad-2490
09-08-2004, 11:33 PM
But how big is the real aeglos in the movie is my question, the blade is two feet....do we al atleast agree on that? if so how tall do you think all of aeglos is and how tall do you think aeglos should be made? I think that the aeglos that was used in the movie the one the actor weilded was 7 ft and i think it should be made 7 ft. but if i'm wrong and if the one in the movie is 9 ft. then i think it should be 9 ft. what does everyone else think?

Sir Tristram
09-08-2004, 11:46 PM
It's all well and good to desire that kind of text book accuracy and customized dreams, but UC is in this for profit. Bottom Line. Period.
They have to appeal to the largest possible customer base and then throw hardcore collectors a bone here and there.
The practicallity of these 'display' pieces....and they are display pieces as of now...is paramount. That is why they also try and keep the price down and reasonable! It's all more money for them!
A lot of re-enactors that want specific items like a 9ft. spear usually make it themselves or have it custom made! Diehards like that usually save up for extravegant items like that and the collectibility of a one of a kind item like that is also attractive to that set!

Sir Tristram
09-08-2004, 11:50 PM
Yeah, its a good point, but look...why did UC decide to scale down the PEW shield?
It wasn't 9ft long!
The bulk of the thing turns potential buyers away because they say...where am I going to put it....(Especially since I have ALL THIS OTHER STUFF)

They had to scale it back to be able to sell MORE of them....More...More practicality...More buyers....MORE money!

If the thing is actualy 9ft. in the film (Which I do not think it is) then perhaps they can include an extra screw on piece that can extend the shaft to 9ft. or lessen it to 7ft.

Who knows....I wonder if they are seeing this conversation and can shed some light on the entire Spear-Pike length questions!

Gregorius0202
09-09-2004, 01:43 AM
"A lot of re-enactors that want specific items like a 9ft. spear usually make it themselves or have it custom made!"

I agree completely. Although I'm just gettin' back into Lord of the Rings, and into making/collecting arms and armor from it for the first time, I've already contacted a bowyer in Europe about an Orc Bow design and the Galadrim Bow design, to get quotes (I just sent the email a while ago, so no reply yet) and am also currently in the planning stages or already working on a couple of shields, swords, pole weapons and an orc helmet!

Also, for non-Lord of the Rings stuff, I currently have a 300 Dollar Bronze Spear head on order in Australia! Custom work is definitely important to reenactors...

9 Feet is the proper size, as Elendil was rather tall, even if the actual prop was not that high. But I do agree that a screw on piece would solve many people's problems. The problem with the cross between manufactured goods that CAN be used for reenacting and custom stuff is prices. I myself am THE youngest hardcore (as in owning a room full of weaponry and some armor, making lots of my own stuff, and having nearly 100 books on arms and armor) historic reproducer and collector I've heard of, at 15 years of age! So, I don't have LOTS of money to throw around on this stuff, but when I do, I have to spend it sparingly.

So, you can see that being able to afford things that are already made, AND suit my needs, is something I really want! Which would be the case if this glaive is 9' in length...

-Gregory-

Gilgalad-2490
09-09-2004, 04:35 PM
when do you think U.C will release information on spears and when there going to be released and which ones will be made:confused: ...anybody have any idea?

Gregorius0202
09-09-2004, 08:29 PM
I'll bet that the Dwarven pike used to stab Frodo by the Troll in Moria will be made. It had some very detailed inscriptions on the socket, so it would make a good display peice. It's Triangular blade shape (borrowed heavily in design from specific historic Japanese Yari pieces) will also make it pretty neat.

Besides that and Aiglos, I can't think of many prominant pole-arms throughout the movies!

-Gregory-

Gil-Galad
09-09-2004, 09:31 PM
Well, there is the gondorian pikes, and the rohan spears. I love all of those, but we all know what I want. I will buy it two feet seven feet nine feet ANY FEET. It is the spear that matters. It all comes down to that, not the length. If you think that it is too long, get it cutt by a wood worker. I just want to focus on getting any scale made, then talk about how long they will be. wait a minute, that is the title of the thread!:rolleyes: I say full nine foot scale!

Gregorius0202
09-09-2004, 10:06 PM
Yeah, looking at a vendors list of "upcoming" chance ideas for the pole-weaponry section, they have the Easterling's Halberds, Uruk-Hai pikes, Warg Rider's Sickles, and somethin' else I can't recall... Mighta' been a Rohan spear.

-Gregory-

Gilgalad-2490
09-09-2004, 10:22 PM
you know what....i don't care how long they make it either i'm going to buy aeglos no matter what

Sir Tristram
09-09-2004, 10:32 PM
Hey, UC!

Throw us a bone (or a spear) and let us know where these are in the planning stage! Any info will do! ;)

Gregorius0202
09-09-2004, 10:46 PM
I second Tristram's idea:D I say they put Aiglos in the MC series! That would be outstanding..! It would discourage me from havin' to buy a Naginata!:)

-Gregory-

Gilgalad-2490
09-09-2004, 10:52 PM
Yea U.C can you give us any info. on spears, and what yout planning on doing with them?

Grima Wormtongue
09-10-2004, 12:36 AM
Sorry, we cant mention our past sponse,

Hey, put me down on the fullscale list. I think agolas is nine feet, look closly. The average man is 6ft, and in most pics, it looks like the spear is about 2 feet taller then him, aswell, you can see the spear at an angle, which means its taller then it appears. So it has to be 9ft. I dont want to see it any smaller, because that will take away the beauty of the weapon:D

Gregorius0202
09-10-2004, 12:40 AM
"Sorry, we cant mention our past sponser"

'Eh? I was just listin' what LOOKED like original plans from UC on the series... Didn't mean any harm:D

"Hey, put me down on the fullscale list. I think agolas is nine feet, look closly. The average man is 6ft, and in most pics, it looks like the spear is about 2 feet taller then him, aswell, you can see the spear at an angle, which means its taller then it appears. So it has to be 9ft. I dont want to see it any smaller, because that will take away the beauty of the weapon"

Ahhh, another fan of perfection. Glad to know it! Accuracy is always above and beyond displayability, in my opinion. If you don't have an accurate item to display, why bother?

-Gregory-

Grima Wormtongue
09-10-2004, 12:59 AM
No problem, you just have to erase it from the previous post. These forums are going through a big change, and that means alot of confusion. Hopfuly we will get UC to sponser us:D

Anyway, i do not think United will put agolas in the MC collection. Atleast not for now. I belive UC is going to make only the most popular from the display collection, so if agolas is made, then it becomes hugly popular, then we will have a chance to see it in the MC collection. who know, there are some huge fans, we just have to wait...

Gregorius0202
09-10-2004, 01:53 AM
Don't worry, it's been edited now:D

Aiglos will be cool, I do definitely hope it works it's way into the MC!

Adios!

-Gregory-

ryurage
09-10-2004, 03:11 PM
I graduated college and I now have a decent job so I could buy things like Aeglos of the MC. My girlfriend and mother have no say in this type of expenditure choice. I love these products and Aeglos will be bought regardless of what UC collection. Mark me down for the 'full-size' edition. If it's 7' long and hard-as-nails looking, I probably won't complain and still purchase it. 9' is better b/c closer to my idea of 'real' gets my money and happiness faster.

Gil-Galad
09-10-2004, 05:57 PM
i don't care if they put it in the MC pile. I just want the normal version. I just hope that everything MC goes through the normal sales first.

Gilgalad-2490
09-10-2004, 06:55 PM
Look at my avatar the spear looks like it's going to end in another foot right? and it also look like gil-galad is extending the spear a little above the ground (maybe half a foot) in my opinion the spear looks 7 ft. and when gil-galad slashes the orc then stabs him do you think it would be as easy or even possible to do that with a nine foot spear?! in my opinion i think the spear is 7' but as i said hundreds of times before i will buy aeglos no matter what :)

Gregorius0202
09-10-2004, 07:09 PM
Yeah, but you forgot to realize that Gil Galad is supposed to be seven feet tall!

The blade alone is also two feet, and in your avatar, we barely see the TINIEST part of the end of the blade! So, with your picture, we have all of Gil Galad, that's seven feet...

None of the blade though, and that's two more!

Equals nine, my friend!

-Gregory-

Gilgalad-2490
09-10-2004, 07:27 PM
the actor that plays gil galad is not 7ft tall, just look at this picture


http://www.theargonath.cc/characters/gilgalad/pictures/gilgalad13.jpg the blade ends half a foot above his head!
end of story!

Gregorius0202
09-10-2004, 07:31 PM
I'm not talking about the ACTOR. I'm talking about the character in the movie. The PROP for the glaive was probably only about 7.5 feet tall. IF you were to standing in the scene, and it was really happening, it would be about 9 feet tall, and that man would be about 7 feet tall.

You get my point? The sword "Sting" in the movie was LONG, because it had to look big for a hobbit. But in reality, it would only have been as big as the one that UC designed.

See what I mean?

-Gregory-

Gilgalad-2490
09-10-2004, 07:38 PM
actually if you watched lotr fotr ee you saw they had two versions of sting one big one and one small one ;)

Gregorius0202
09-10-2004, 07:45 PM
Lol, of course, but you know what I mean. They make the props proportionate to the actors, not the actual lengths.

UC does it the other way around. They don't care if you want to be an elf and you're only 5' 5" tall, they should make the blades a real length, which would be proportionate to a 7' tall elf! Only seems proper to me...

-Gregory-

Gilgalad-2490
09-10-2004, 07:49 PM
well thats your opinion and everyone is entitled to that but, U.C makes products in replica from the movie

Gregorius0202
09-10-2004, 08:05 PM
Yes, there are of course exceptions.

Sauron's helmet, for example. It HAD to be sized down, or it would be impractical!

But weapons are different than armor, and even shields. Making them accurately sized is perfectly possible, and if people have a problem with 2 feet of a wooden pole, I don't see why they can't just go saw it off.

For those who DO want those two feet there, then it'd be much harder to add it on if it wasn't there!

-Gregory-

Gilgalad-2490
09-10-2004, 08:31 PM
what would be the point for two more feet of wooden pole to be added? it doesn't help the display (and U.C is all about display), and it's a waste of money for U.C plus making things acurate to the movie is what they always do unless it's absoluley nesseary ex. saurons mace would be way to heavy, but what would adding two feet do...nothing. am i the only person that see's this?

Gregorius0202
09-10-2004, 08:39 PM
Well lots of us would rather have a spear on display that's the right length, than the wrong length.

Tell me, do you own any spears? I have a couple that I've made myself, and their 'historic' length is very important to preserve, as they really would look VERY wrong if they were two feet shorter. The length of a shaft is VERY important in any pole-weapon. Would you want to buy an "accurate" 14 pike, and then have it come to you being 10 feet long, because the people who made it thought it was too long as 14 feet, because it just "wasn't practical"?

-Gregory-

Gilgalad-2490
09-10-2004, 09:23 PM
I think were not understanding eachother fully (and i mean no hard feelings to at all, actually this debate is kind of fun :p ) i dont want the spear to made by the "historical" book version i would like aeglos to be made by the movie version which no doubt looks 7 ft. where am i gonna fit a 9 ft. spear in my room anyway?! i hope you understand were i'm coming from i would like an exact "movie" replica of Aeglos

Gregorius0202
09-10-2004, 10:04 PM
I think were not understanding eachother fully (and i mean no hard feelings to at all, actually this debate is kind of fun :p ) i dont want the spear to made by the "historical" book version i would like aeglos to be made by the movie version which no doubt looks 7 ft. where am i gonna fit a 9 ft. spear in my room anyway?! i hope you understand were i'm coming from i would like an exact "movie" replica of Aeglos
See, that's the thing! In the MOVIE, the spear was ALSO supposed to be Nine feet tall!

Do you have "Lord of the Rings, Weapons and Warfare" by Chris Smith?

That's ALL for the movie stuff. NONE of it is book stuff. And he states plainly that Aiglos is 9 feet in length! Here's the quote even...

"Named Aiglos, or Icicle, by the Elves, it stood nine feet high; the blade was recurved and almost two feet long and was etched in crass filigree."

Page 18, in the "Aiglos" box.

You see, Gil Galad, IN THE MOVIE (I'm not talking about the actor) was supposed to be 7 feet tall! So, the spear is quite a bit taller than that!

In your avatar, we ONLY see the socket to the blade, not the blade itself. If the blade does in fact stand two feet high, then that means the spear is 9 feet long, IN THE MOVIE.

See?

-Gregory-

(ps. I also think this is a fun conversation, so no hard feelings!)

Gil-Galad
09-10-2004, 10:45 PM
Hey dudes check this out and see what you think. i am enjoying reading this debate!:D

SauronTD
09-10-2004, 11:02 PM
Even though it would be harder to display I would like it to be full sized. Sting is scaled for someone hobbit size so Aiglos should be scaled if I was 7ft.(which I only lack 6" being) Sauron's helm is scaled if we were Sauron becuase if it was full sized it would be just to big, like someone else said. So imo most weapons from uc should be their full size. Sting is only 22" long or so, so Aiglos should be 9ft. I hope that made some sense.

Gilgalad-2490
09-10-2004, 11:15 PM
Weapons and warfare says alot of stuff it said legolas's bow has a 180 draw weight i'm an archer and do you know how much that is!? it's like pulling a string back at 180 pounds! and look at all the pictures does aeglos really look nine feet...no. and i remember someone mentioned before "the actor couldn't have weild the spear as well as if it were nine feet" i'm sorry in the pic. gil galad posted the spear look one foot taller than the actor that is 6 ft and that would make aeglos 7ft. there's a difference between the spear being nine feet and wanting the spear to be nine feet

Grima Wormtongue
09-10-2004, 11:36 PM
Okay, to prove its nine feet ive drawn up somthing, thanks to the pic from GG:D

As you see one yellow bar equals about 1ft, so Gil is about 6 ft, plus the spear is an extra 2ft. from his head minus a little from the ground. So you can see that the way hes holding the spear is about 71/2 feet. But because he is holding the spear at an angle you can straigten it out and add about 1-1/2 ft.

So there you go, id say about 9ft, i hope this makes sense?

SauronTD
09-10-2004, 11:39 PM
As far as scale goes rember the move prop was scaled if the actor was 7ft tall. He wasnt so the spear prop may only be 7ft tall. If Sting had been the size it was in the movie it would be about 38" long.

Gilgalad-2490
09-11-2004, 12:03 AM
"PROP for the glaive was probably only about 7.5 feet tall"-Gregorius0202

that's what you said greg and that's what i want the PROP for the glaive, and even if it's being held at an angle it still looks 7 feet to me, get measuring tape and make it nine feet now imagine trying to swing it around like the actor did, do you think it would look as nice in the movie if the spear was nine feet think of it from peter jackons point of view would he want a 9 ft. spear beong carried around with difficlty, nine feet is tall are you even considering how tall that is it's four feet taller than me i'm only 5' 4"...no i'm sorry but that spear doesn't look nine feet no way.....:(

SauronTD
09-11-2004, 12:06 AM
The movie prop was only 7 1/2ft tall. We know that. I understand that how big you want it to be. But if it were is scale like sting it would be 9ft. Thats the only thing I am trying to say.

Gilgalad-2490
09-11-2004, 12:12 AM
Oh i dont care if aeglos is made nine feet i just wanted to prove my point that the prop in the movie was 7 ft. i mean i'm a huge gil-galad fan so if they make it nine feet then i guess i'll be clearing 9 ft. in my room for it :p

SauronTD
09-11-2004, 12:18 AM
Oh i dont care if aeglos is made nine feet i just wanted to prove my point that the prop in the movie was 7 ft. i mean i'm a huge gil-galad fan so if they make it nine feet then i guess i'll be clearing 9 ft. in my room for it :plol, I dont think any of the walls in my room could hold something that long. It wouldnt be a big deal if they made it 7 1/5 feet. What they should do is make it 9ft and the plaque be adjustable where if you have the height you could mount in verticaly. Another good idea is to make it into sections where you could adjust the height. That might work too.

Sir Tristram
09-11-2004, 12:41 AM
Look at my avatar the spear looks like it's going to end in another foot right? and it also look like gil-galad is extending the spear a little above the ground (maybe half a foot) in my opinion the spear looks 7 ft. and when gil-galad slashes the orc then stabs him do you think it would be as easy or even possible to do that with a nine foot spear?! in my opinion i think the spear is 7' but as i said hundreds of times before i will buy aeglos no matter what :)
That's exactly what I though too, when I looked at your avatar and I was thinkning of the shot in the film where he stabs down!
Even though it says it is suposed to be 9ft...in the book (I believe) the movie version looks 7 ft (7 1/2 ft.) to me, too.

Gregorius0202
09-11-2004, 01:35 AM
Yes, yes, yes. We know THAT Aiglos was roughly 7 feet tall! BUT, that's JUST the prop! In scale with the SIZE of the actor, only! The actor, who stood about six feet tall, was representing a SEVEN foot tall man.

Okay, we all have that, now?

So, the difference between a six foot man and a 7.5 foot spear, when changed to a seven foot high man (which he was representing) is approximately 8.74 feet, comin' out to just about Eight Feet, Eight inches high!

That's 8' 8", folks...

IF we wanted an accurate reproduction of what the spear was REPRESENTING, and not what the PROP was like, then it should be about nine feet long.

But if you want a prop, well, then about 7.5 feet is what you want...

I personally want what was represented in the film, not what we saw on the set.

Also, the thing about pulling a 180 pound bow is perfectly logical.

First thing-

In the Middle-Ages, plenty of Longbowmen who trained a whole lot for about 20-40 years of their lives pulled bows that averaged about 125 pounds in draw weight with ease of practice, strength and skill. Even nowadays, plenty of archers pull that much or nearly that much!

SO, why on Middle-Earth shouldn't a ONE THOUSAND year old elf be able to build up his strength and skill enough to pull even twice that much?

He should be able to... Methinks!

-Gregory-

Sir Tristram
09-11-2004, 01:50 AM
Yeah...fine OK, but we ARE buying reproductions of the PROPS!
Sting is in scale with How Aragorn or Gandalf would have beheld it....Not Frodo and Sam....
NC makes the Frodo scale one....
Also, this is a business and when making marketing decisions they have to consider who the hell is going to buy a 9 or 9.5 ft. spear! Of course people would....but MORE people may be able to fit a smaller version in their home AND have ROOM for more of their MERCHANDISE!
They have to think in terms and creating interest and maintaining customer base!

From your POV and rational Elendil's Helm should have been larger than it is! He was over 7ft. tall! All the 7 ft. people I know have HEADS that are proportionate to their size! This is all symantics! Why did they scale down Sauron's helm? and His Gauntlet? And the Elven Shield? and who knows what else they will scale down! Because their representative size was TOO DAMN BIG! Why should this be any different? I would think that these spears and pikes would be a given for scaling down! I was more suprised at the shield being scaled down...But then again, that is a HUGE Shield!
There is not going to be an incredible amount of *****ing if this thing ends up being 7ft long or 9ft when it finally comes out as long as it looks cool and quality is what we have all come to know UC for!

Gregorius0202
09-11-2004, 02:31 AM
[QUOTE=Gregorius0202]Yes, there are of course exceptions.

Sauron's helmet, for example. It HAD to be sized down, or it would be impractical!

But weapons are different than armor, and even shields. Making them accurately sized is perfectly possible, and if people have a problem with 2 feet of a wooden pole, I don't see why they can't just go saw it off.

QUOTE]

From one of my previous posts, Tristram. I already explained that I agree with you, expce the shields. I also believe shields would be just as good if made to full size. Although I can see the negative sides to that as well...

When it comes down to it, though, it can't all be done right.

I personally would love to do the recreation stuff and all, but the problem is, if I have NON "historically" proportionate armor, which is what I want, AND historical weaponry, which is also what I want, then the size of my outfit would be all out of whack!

So, I'd personally have to say that the VERY best thing UC could do is scale ALL of their products to the size of a 6 foot person.

But guess what? That has it's problems too!

If you want to be a hobbit, that scale will make sting really big! But if you want to be Elendil, it will make Aiglos really short!

Which isn't a problem, except that if they were to be viewed next to eachother, nothing would look right!

Therefore, the only possible way to get EVERYTHING appropriate size is to have it ALL the original size that it was supposed to be representing, but since that's out of the question with many collectors and with stuff like helmets, it will never work out.

Too bad, too, as to have every product match up perfectly in proportions to eachother AND have them all be a good size for everything would be heaven on earth, and I also just proved it impossible, which sucks:\

-Gregory-

Gilgalad-2490
09-11-2004, 09:06 AM
ok, take Narsil, the one that was made was 52" but what it would have represented in the movie wouldv'e beenat least two feet larger (elendil was 7ft. + tall) Did they make Narsil that big no, they made it by the scale that the actor used it, another example of why U.C would make it 7 ft., but i'll but aeglos if it's 7 ft,8 ft,9 ft, 10 ft! :D - and the thing with the bow being 180 draw weight it would be possible in middle earth, but you try pulling a bow that draws 180 it not as easy as you would think

Gil-Galad
09-11-2004, 11:10 AM
What if UC left it up to you/ You could buy it 9ft., 7ft, what ever. they could do it buy shipping the shaft in more that two peices with a decorative end cap. That could be a good plan.

Gilgalad-2490
09-11-2004, 11:30 AM
That's a good idea but i think there should be some design on the shaft or else it might be to plain

Sir Tristram
09-11-2004, 01:01 PM
You're just arguing in a circle....If you say the helmets and shields had to be scaled down becasue they are not practical....
9FT. IS NOT PRACTICAL for most people!
I don't really care what they do....We're all just speculating here...I'm just trying to rationalize having a series of weapon reproductions in a line that are 9ft. +
The Uruk Pikes are a lot longer than 9 ft....They looked about 15ft.+

And as far as Historical representation?
I don't follow what you're talking about excactly? Are you releating that to LOTR?
How is LOTR historical? They don't need to follow any human historical models for anything that they do....They might, because it is easier to springboard off of something that you are familiar with and know already, but following historical human proportions isn't neccessary when relating to a fantastical storyline!

And I would not particularly care for a set of Gimli's axe's that were scaled for a 6ft. human. Smaller, Dwarvish scale is not only retaining the accuracy you want but it also makes it more practical TO SELL...Not only to represent the character. Look at Sauron's mace....That is not a shield or a helmet....You want them to scale that accurately? That is not practical either...Why? TOO BIG! Not only would average sized humans have trouble wielding it, but UC would have trouble selling it!
(Which is the BOTTOM LINE HERE! Make no mistake about that!)

So....they can't scale everything properly according to chracter. They've decided that. (And I think we have too!)
And they shouldn't scale everything to fit a 6ft. human. (I believe most would agree on that as well.)
So....What's left? Scale each weapon and piece of armor accordingly, taking each piece on its practical and marketing merits. Factoring in character representations as closely as possible without overriding the former variables.
....Tat si what UC is already doing!
So, I say let's leave it up to them and see what they do! We can always ***** about it later! :p
They have not done us wrong yet!

Gregorius0202
09-11-2004, 01:41 PM
Yeah, I already said, the system I would like to see is flawed... It couldn't work, it's impossible.

So, I've decided to take what I get. IF they made every weapon scaled to a six foot person, it would be paradise for most of us, but then when you looked at all of the stuff together, it would look all wrong, because sting might be as long as Anduril...:\

See what I mean?

So, I submit... There's no way that we can take a fantasy based weapons and armor series, where people range from 3 feet in height to 10 or 12 (Sauron) and make both displayers and costume folks happy.

Too bad, too:\

-Gregory-

Sir Tristram
09-11-2004, 02:05 PM
but then when you looked at all of the stuff together, it would look all wrong, because sting might be as long as Anduril...:\

Too bad, too:\

-Gregory-

Indeed.:cool:



Sting as long as Anduril.....Now that is scary! :D

SauronTD
09-11-2004, 02:08 PM
Like I said in one of my earler posts to make everybody happy they need to make the bottom part of Aiglos in sections where people can display it how they want. Wouldnt that make everybody here happy?

Sir Tristram
09-11-2004, 02:13 PM
Has anyone even heard that these things are actually coming out?
I know they have the rights to make them, but that doesn't mean that they will!
If they are going to be realeased, does anyone have any reasonable timeframe on these....or are we going to be be doing this for the next two years? :rolleyes:

Gilgalad-2490
09-11-2004, 03:01 PM
I saw the section on spears on the-site-that-must-not-be-named and assumed it was for sure, and then i saw the section for them here, as for the time frame i hope we don't have to wait two years that's just too long for me, i think more like this spring (hopefully)

Gregorius0202
09-11-2004, 03:23 PM
Well, I want an Elven Warrior Sword before Aiglos, personally...

And I'm confident it will be out within the next year, because they're making the Second age shield and helmet! (Yay!)

In the next couple of months I'm going to start work on my Second Age body armor to accompany the shield/helmet set. Since those items are already Fiberglass, I've decided that I'll cheat too and just use leather.

-Gregory-

Gilgalad-2490
09-11-2004, 04:07 PM
I'll also get the elven warrior sword but no before aeglos (if they come out at the same time) aeglos is first priority to me :D, anyway this is off topic but i was reading this book called LOTR the making of the movie trilogy and i found this bit about aeglos "There is also an elegant yet deadly spear designed for the character that played gil-galad, made in spring steel. it's head is etched with elven script and further decorated with hand brazed filigree vinework in copper", it also said it was one of the only prop spears made sharp, just thought you guys might think this bit would be intersting

Gilgalad-2490
09-11-2004, 04:40 PM
http://www.ucforums.com/photopost/data/509/635Elven_weapons.jpg
Look at aeglos (top of shelf) how long do you think it looks? no more than 7 ft. to me

Sir Tristram
09-11-2004, 05:36 PM
http://www.ucforums.com/photopost/data/509/635Elven_weapons.jpg
Look at aeglos (top of shelf) how long do you think it looks? no more than 7 ft. to me
That is exactly the picture I was looking for!
Looks around 7ft. to me too.

Gregorius0202
09-11-2004, 06:44 PM
*Cough* Once again, I think we all agreed that the prop was seven feet long or so...

Nine feet would be the length it represented in the film, no more:D

Where in the world is that photo taken anyway? I'd love to go there:\

...

-Gregory-

Gilgalad-2490
09-11-2004, 07:11 PM
[QUOTE=Gregorius0202] Where in the world is that photo taken anyway? I'd love to go there:\ QUOTE]


I have no idea where this picture was taken i found it in the member photo gallery

Sir Tristram
09-11-2004, 09:36 PM
It's from the LOTR exhibit.

*cough* I can't wait to the 'representative mace of Sauron *cough*


**Cough** Too bad they're not making the Balrog's Flaming Sword **Cough**

***COUGH***....Man, I must have caught a cold! ***COUGH*** :p

Gilgalad-2490
09-11-2004, 09:46 PM
lol maybe you should take some cough medicine ;), anyway swordsman we could really use your help what spears are you planning on making (please say aeglos), how long will they be made, how will they be displayed, when will they be released? can you atleast give us a hint? please?

Sir Tristram
09-11-2004, 09:51 PM
Just did! Thanks! ;)

Of all the spears, this one seems to be garnering the most buzz and I can't imgine UC passing this one up as the first one to be done!

(Well, I guess I could imagine it, but I think it will be made!)

Doesn't it seem that there has been quite a lack of updates on the LOTR line of UC products of late?
I have been hearing about most all of the other LOTR brand merchandise as retailers are gearing up for XMAS (Yes, it's beginning alredy! ....ugh....)

Gilgalad-2490
09-11-2004, 09:56 PM
I agree i don't think they won't make aeglos, but it would be nice if U.C could make an update on spears i mean they hardly said anything about them :(

Gil-Galad
09-12-2004, 01:24 AM
I will be very pissed if UC makes something like the Uruk-Hai pike befor Aeglos. i don't see and threads here called Uruk-Hai pike petition. UC will be very wise to make Aeglos first. Sorry off topic.:eek:

Gregorius0202
09-12-2004, 02:31 AM
I'm makin' my own Uruk-Hai pike, so I wouldn't want that to be released first;|

Definitely aiglos all of the way, once again! It'd be a very hard piece to make, so I'm stickin' with simpler stuff... What do the runes on the blade look like exactly? I've seen what it says, but not in Elvish... Could someone get me an enlarged picture, perhaps?

I don't think I'll mind the shaft bein' 7 feet after all... It's whatever makes the MOST people happy that I'm in support of:D It's not being made for ME, but for everyone:)

It really is a shame I don't have the experience to make it on my own, but there are other things to do...

Like a Balrog sword from pure steel, usin' my regular tools and a metal lathe to CARVE a full steel hilt! It'll look sweet, with all blackened steel for the blade and grip, look like one large piece of metal, and have the exact same lines on the blade as the Balrog sword in the film:D Plannin' on makin' a couple, hopefully. I know some people who may want them;)

It's going to be about FOUR FEET long, and weigh in at about 10-15 pounds! I'm going to make a glass covered box to go with it for display. It should be fun.

(EDIT: Lol! Sorry, got a bit carried away on my description of the Balrog Sword there!)

-Gregory-

Sir Tristram
09-12-2004, 02:36 AM
See? We're having fun in here with this thread!
I got censored in another one for being 'Sarcastic' and I am not even sure what I said... :confused:
Meanwhile we're oozing with it in here and we're still civil and having a good time! Oh well! ;)

Gilgalad-2490
09-12-2004, 11:31 AM
I will be very pissed if UC makes something like the Uruk-Hai pike befor Aeglos. i don't see and threads here called Uruk-Hai pike petition. UC will be very wise to make Aeglos first. Sorry off topic.:eek:
It's ok i'm worried U.C will make another spear first too, everyone seems to want aeglos and U.C will make alot of $$$ if they choose the right choice (aeglos) and this is also going way off subject but how much do you think it will cost i think around $300 as the starting price

mastersword36
09-12-2004, 11:42 AM
I'm makin' my own Uruk-Hai pike, so I wouldn't want that to be released first;|

Definitely aiglos all of the way, once again! It'd be a very hard piece to make, so I'm stickin' with simpler stuff... What do the runes on the blade look like exactly? I've seen what it says, but not in Elvish... Could someone get me an enlarged picture, perhaps?

I don't think I'll mind the shaft bein' 7 feet after all... It's whatever makes the MOST people happy that I'm in support of:D It's not being made for ME, but for everyone:)

It really is a shame I don't have the experience to make it on my own, but there are other things to do...

Like a Balrog sword from pure steel, usin' my regular tools and a metal lathe to CARVE a full steel hilt! It'll look sweet, with all blackened steel for the blade and grip, look like one large piece of metal, and have the exact same lines on the blade as the Balrog sword in the film:D Plannin' on makin' a couple, hopefully. I know some people who may want them;)

It's going to be about FOUR FEET long, and weigh in at about 10-15 pounds! I'm going to make a glass covered box to go with it for display. It should be fun.

(EDIT: Lol! Sorry, got a bit carried away on my description of the Balrog Sword there!)

-Gregory-
wow, good luck on that sword, sounds awesome! I'm going to make a sword soon once I get a chimney on my forge. In the future I'm planning on making a narsil with a damascus steel blade.
Oh yeah, UC definatley should make aiglos, its the best looking spear i've ever seen with the beautiful recurved blade and the elvish inscriptions. UC would be wise to make this first.

Gregorius0202
09-12-2004, 01:12 PM
"In the future I'm planning on making a narsil with a damascus steel blade"

Yikes! That would be awesome! I don't have any experience or knowledge about Damascus blades, except how pretty they look...:\ Sounds like that will be a neat project, for sure!

I think we should get a thread goin' in the "other" replica's section for stuff we all make, to share our ideas and pictures, etc..!

So, I'll leave this here and be off to make that thread, so we don't have to go off topic anymore! Sorry Gil Galad's, Tristram, for not stayin' on the topic:D

Cheers anyway!:)

-Gregory-

mastersword36
09-12-2004, 01:34 PM
"In the future I'm planning on making a narsil with a damascus steel blade"

Yikes! That would be awesome! I don't have any experience or knowledge about Damascus blades, except how pretty they look...:\ Sounds like that will be a neat project, for sure!

I think we should get a thread goin' in the "other" replica's section for stuff we all make, to share our ideas and pictures, etc..!

So, I'll leave this here and be off to make that thread, so we don't have to go off topic anymore! Sorry Gil Galad's, Tristram, for not stayin' on the topic:D

Cheers anyway!:)

-Gregory-
yeah sorry about getting off topic, we shall talk about our swords and weapons were making in a new thread

Gil-Galad
09-12-2004, 03:23 PM
It's ok i'm worried U.C will make another spear first too, everyone seems to want aeglos and U.C will make alot of $$$ if they choose the right choice (aeglos) and this is also going way off subject but how much do you think it will cost i think around $300 as the starting price
i don't think that it will cost 300 $mackers. it is really a knife on the end of a wooden pole. there is really not that much to it whn you think about it. the blade reminds me of hadhafang. All they would have to do would be to go with the idea of it being another sword, just on the end a decorative pole.

Gilgalad-2490
09-12-2004, 03:52 PM
yea now that i think about it your right, i dont think it gonna be that much

SauronTD
09-12-2004, 05:04 PM
just wandering why some of you spell Aiglos, Aeglos?

Gil-Galad
09-12-2004, 09:12 PM
I think that it's just a matter of opinion.I think that tolkien spelled it Aeglos, so I spell it the same way.

Gregorius0202
09-12-2004, 09:27 PM
I think I prefer calling it either. Why, you ask?

If I'm talkin' about the Aiglos that we saw in the movie, then I'll say "Aiglos".

If I'm talkin' about a personal representation of the "book" weapon, I'd say Aeglos:D

Haha...

-Gregory-

Sir Tristram
09-13-2004, 09:48 AM
I've never seen it spelled 'Aiglos'.

I only recall ever seeing it spelled 'Aeglos'.

Gregorius0202
09-13-2004, 01:48 PM
Chris Smith spells it "Aiglos". I personally don't even remember hearing about the weapon before I got that book, as I haven't been interested in Lord of the Rings for some time:\

-Gregory-

Gilgalad-2490
09-13-2004, 04:40 PM
"The fearsome spear of Ereinion Gil-galad (http://www.glyphweb.com/arda/g/gilgalad.html), last of the High Kings of the Noldor (http://www.glyphweb.com/arda/h/highkingofthenoldor.html). Its name in Elvish (http://www.glyphweb.com/arda/e/elvish.html) was Aiglos (http://www.glyphweb.com/arda/a/aeglos.html) (often also spelt Aeglos (http://www.glyphweb.com/arda/a/aeglos.html)), which is variously translated as 'Snow-point', 'Snowthorn (http://www.glyphweb.com/arda/s/snowthorn.html)' or 'Icicle'. Gil-galad (http://www.glyphweb.com/arda/g/gilgalad.html) is known to have carried his spear to the Battle of Dagorlad (http://www.glyphweb.com/arda/b/battleofdagorlad.html) outside the Morannon (http://www.glyphweb.com/arda/m/morannon.html) in the closing years of the Second Age (http://www.glyphweb.com/arda/s/secondage.html). Though it is not otherwise recorded, it seems more than reasonable to assume that it was also with him seven years later, when he fell in combat with the Dark Lord (http://www.glyphweb.com/arda/d/darklord.html)Sauron (http://www.glyphweb.com/arda/s/sauron.html) himself. "


I think that should answer everyone's qestion i found it in the encyclopedia of arda

Gregorius0202
09-13-2004, 07:41 PM
Good quote, that helps much:D Thankkks..! ;)

-Gregory-

The Flame of the West
09-13-2004, 07:43 PM
I believe the correct spelling is "Aeglos", not "Aiglos", as it appears AEGLOS in the Silmarillion. Hope that clears up some of the spelling issues...

King of Numenor
06-01-2005, 03:55 PM
Who cares how it's spelled. I don't think people are going to go to your house to see it then ask how to spell it. Right?

King of Numenor
06-12-2005, 05:37 PM
If any of you know how tall Gil-Galad is you might be able to tell Aegols's length from a pic I found on the net.

Gondor Avenger
06-12-2005, 05:45 PM
It´s just huge ^_^

The Flame of the West
06-12-2005, 06:38 PM
Well, it seems Tolkien liked Kings and figures holding the highest authority etc to be tall! It can be reasonably assumed therefore, that Gil-galad was tall, probably well over 6ft, maybe even close to 7ft.
I would say the glaive-like blade is around 2ft long, so stick that on a 6 or 7 ft shaft, and you've got the perfect length for Aeglos.
This is obviously basing it off how tall Gil-galad would have been, had he actually existed. United usually make character scale pieces (excluding the Sauron Collection), but I feel they will scale down Aeglos too, should it ever be made. I guess the shaft will not take that much work, but since they had problems with the EWS sword blade, they may with this too, since the blade of Aeglos is curved also. That may seem like a good enough reason for them not to make it :(

King of Numenor
06-12-2005, 06:42 PM
Looking at my pic, the shaft seems to be close to 4-5.5 feet long and the blade about maybe 2.5-3.

The Flame of the West
06-12-2005, 06:57 PM
Yeah I guess you're right. I wasn't really looking at it to be honest!
The blade is much longer than I thought, maybe 3ft like you said.
However, it does all depend on how tall Gil-galad is SUPPOSED to be in that pic, if you want real character scale.

That would be nice though: 3ft blade, 5ft pole :)

King of Numenor
06-12-2005, 07:03 PM
Those estimates come from the fact that you can see most of the blade and the shaft is about 0.5-1 feet off the ground.

Sparrowhawk
06-13-2005, 10:44 AM
OK, folks, I went to the Lord of the Rings Exhibit in Houston over the weekend and had a good look at Aeglos. It is certainly an impressive weapon, but no where near 9" long. It was on a horizontal stand over the display of Second Age shields and weapons and looked to be about 7" in length.

I think UC's approach to prop reproduction is much more pragmatic than you guys are thinking. They make prop replicas,, period. Where possible they match the scale of an actual prop and in some cases scale down slightly for practicality. In no cases have they ever scaled a prop up, which is what a lot of you guys are ranting for. As there is no full-scale prop of Aeglos, there will be no full-scale UC replica.